Curse

Zuranthium · Feb 02, 2008, 06:44 AM // 06:44

The -1 to attributes is just plain annoying.

~Z

erk · Feb 02, 2008, 07:39 AM // 07:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by makosi

I think there's enough caster hate already. A buff to weakness would be a 25-33% reduction in attack speed or a -33% chance of a Critical Hit.

I like the sound of a reduction in attack speed, as the attacker could "feel" that like stone spores.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Feb 02, 2008, 12:17 PM // 12:17

Weakness is fine, just the skills that apply it are kinda bad.

Poise · Feb 02, 2008, 12:24 PM // 12:24

I don't think there's anything inherently crappy about weakness itself, the -66% would be useful damage reduction. If blind didn't exist, weakness might be pretty popular. As it sits now though, blind is just as easy to apply and has a much stronger effect.

As for the -1 attributes buff, I had the impression it was an attempt to make weakness detrimental to all classes (as opposed to only bothering physicals). If that is the case though it would have been more interesting to give it -1 energy regen. Or maybe even -10% max energy (mini-DW for energy?). But either would probably require reevaluating all the skills that apply the condition.

C2K · Feb 02, 2008, 12:54 PM // 12:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

Weakness is fine, just the skills that apply it are kinda bad.

That may be true in most cases, but what about Enfeeble? Enfeeble is just purely applying Weakness, and if that skill is kind of bad, weakness isn't really worth it to begin with.

Blinding Flash is a pure blind skill that still sees play, even though B-Surge has become the skill of choice. Nevertheless, an air ele with an elite that is not B-Surge will probably have B-Flash in their bar. I haven't seen any Corrupt Enchant Necros or curse-based build using Enfeeble across any PvP Format, even though its spammable at 5/1/5.

6am3 Fana71c · Feb 02, 2008, 01:25 PM // 13:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yichi

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6am3 Fana71c

Could probably use a buff, yeah. Maybe add "spells take 50% longer to cast"? Dunno

so yay -1 to all attributes and a partial migrane/daze... NO PLZ!!!

Hehe, alright, fair enough, I know it's a bit stupid idea (I just said what first came into my mind)...
But making weakness effect melee more then it does right now is pretty much pointless since it allready screws them up enough, so I tought it should also effect casters in some way (and let's face it, -1 to their attributes isn't so much)

Dzan · Feb 02, 2008, 01:44 PM // 13:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by erk

I use Weakness (Enervating Charge) when I play B-Surge and there are several melee to cover, the first I hit with B-surge and the second with weakness whilst B-Surge is recharging to at least keep their damage output down.

That really just powers the RC. It gives the monk a 2 for 1. Without the cover condition, the RC would have traded 1 for 1 with the Surge, now you are giving him a second spell to nullify. To put it another way, you just spent 12 energy (assuming Air Attune) to do what he neutralized with 5. Its not a great trade. The only reason Apply Poison works as the concept of covering conditions is that it is essentially free to apply and re-apply so covering the Crip Shot required nothing extra on his part.

Splitisoda · Feb 02, 2008, 03:07 PM // 15:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

'Cannot achieve critical hits' would be a whole lot better than the -1 to all attributes. I like that idea quite a bit actually.

Oh that would be sick if that happened. ME on my hammer warrior against MB+DB = SHUTDOWN!

TheOneMephisto · Feb 02, 2008, 03:10 PM // 15:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by C2K

That may be true in most cases, but what about Enfeeble? Enfeeble is just purely applying Weakness, and if that skill is kind of bad, weakness isn't really worth it to begin with.

Blinding Flash is a pure blind skill that still sees play, even though B-Surge has become the skill of choice. Nevertheless, an air ele with an elite that is not B-Surge will probably have B-Flash in their bar. I haven't seen any Corrupt Enchant Necros or curse-based build using Enfeeble across any PvP Format, even though its spammable at 5/1/5.

Curses necros don't need weakness, as they're already neutralized melee with their hexes. Why would they waste a spot on condition-based melee hate when they have ton's of hex-based melee hate at their disposal that would also help clog up removal?

Blinding flash is usually taken on air eles without bsurge (how often are these seen, one or two mind shocks? OF course mind blasters often use it) because those templates are all primarily split templates, and the build has to have some defensive skills to help defend itself and allies in skirmish.

If you saw a non-hex based necro build come into play that was strong in skirmish I'm sure that enfeeble would be taken into consideration more often. However, the problem is that enfeeble doesn't protect you from KDs (bull's), interrupts, and deepwound like blind does, therefore not neutralizing your biggest threat in skirmish.

DarkGanni · Feb 02, 2008, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Personally I find it fine as it is.

- Ganni

erk · Feb 02, 2008, 04:02 PM // 16:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzan

That really just powers the RC. It gives the monk a 2 for 1. Without the cover condition, the RC would have traded 1 for 1 with the Surge, now you are giving him a second spell to nullify. To put it another way, you just spent 12 energy (assuming Air Attune) to do what he neutralized with 5. Its not a great trade. The only reason Apply Poison works as the concept of covering conditions is that it is essentially free to apply and re-apply so covering the Crip Shot required nothing extra on his part.

I put them on different targets silly boy!

Cherng Butter · Feb 02, 2008, 10:34 PM // 22:34

The -1 to attributes is actually REALLY annoying, you never know when that shield you specced 9 to...becomes useless. Kind of tangent, but Enfeebling Blood is win for PvE

TaCktiX · Feb 02, 2008, 10:42 PM // 22:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

'Cannot achieve critical hits' would be a whole lot better than the -1 to all attributes. I like that idea quite a bit actually.

I like this idea as well, but it would make skills like Stone Sheath and Stoneflesh Aura redundant (they don't see use in PvP, but you know how ANet thinks about skill balances). Perhaps a halved crit hit chance?

Riotgear · Feb 02, 2008, 11:02 PM // 23:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaCktiX

I like this idea as well, but it would make skills like Stone Sheath and Stoneflesh Aura redundant (they don't see use in PvP, but you know how ANet thinks about skill balances). Perhaps a halved crit hit chance?

Stone Sheath is one of the worst skills in the game.

Stoneflesh Aura's selling point is the damage reduction, not the crit immunity.

yum · Feb 02, 2008, 11:03 PM // 23:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

Blinding flash is usually taken on air eles without bsurge (how often are these seen, one or two mind shocks? OF course mind blasters often use it) because those templates are all primarily split templates, and the build has to have some defensive skills to help defend itself and allies in skirmish.

Well, TA wise, Bsurge should always come with Bflash on a same bar.

I like the idea of noncrit. But how about "Attk skills take 50% more energy/adre to use"?

Vaga · Feb 02, 2008, 11:40 PM // 23:40

Weakness is fine there's no need for it to be any better.

I Angra I · Feb 03, 2008, 01:41 AM // 01:41

Weakness is fine as it is. I think the not being able to achieve critical hits would be fine too, but anything more than that would probably make it too powerful.

RiKio · Feb 03, 2008, 10:33 PM // 22:33

Weakness...with Withering Aura and <insert warrior hammer attack than requires a weakned foe> is...great...It is useful for PvE, but, for PvP, I think it only serves as an anti Terra Tanker ( make Mystic Regeneration go boom)

Cirian · Feb 04, 2008, 04:47 AM // 04:47

Weakness is fine. It's the weaker Blind in the way Bleeding is the weaker Burning... if you see what I mean.

There's no need for Weakness to rival Dazed or Blind in potency, it's fair enough to have a spread in quality.

Dominator1370 · Feb 04, 2008, 05:02 AM // 05:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cirian

Weakness is fine. It's the weaker Blind in the way Bleeding is the weaker Burning... if you see what I mean.

There's no need for Weakness to rival Dazed or Blind in potency, it's fair enough to have a spread in quality.

In the nicest way possible, compare the difficulty in applying Burning to the difficulty in applying Bleeding, then compare Blind and Weakness... I'd say either the skills need work or the condition needs work.

No crits sounds good, though I also think some kind of reduction to bonus damage from attack skills would be good, even if it meant a reduction in duration on skills with Weakness..